Continuing the MOOC Conversation

conversationThe small MOOC that I was facilitating on the Canvas Network ended this past weekend.  I say small because we had 800+ participants and that's small for a MOOC (call it a BOOC - big - or SOOC - small?). I say facilitating because I don't consider it to be the same experience as when I "teach" even if I 'd like to think that when I teach I am also trying to facilitate more than push content at and into students. Actually, along with my designer colleague, Mary Zedeck from Seton Hall University, most of the work was in designing the content for the course. I even have a problem with saying it was a "course" because there were no assignments or grades or credit. I said up front that the C for this MOOC stood for Conversation.

The conversation ran for 4 weeks and was open to registration right up to the last day. You might ask what value that would have to join in a conversation when it was closing, but several people who signed in very late said they were glad that he content would still be available to them after the class ended. They plan to access the content as time permits. I see some value to that, although I would say at least half the value in "Academia and the MOOC" was in connecting with other participants (most of whom were employed in academic roles) in the forums. There were more links and comments to new readings in the discussions than were contained in the modules Mary and I designed. 

But I am hoping that the conversation continues. I will be posting for the next few weeks some of the takeaways from doing this converstion. I also created some areas outside Canvas for that discussion to continue. (I did not use these areas during the 4 weeks because I felt it would dilute the conversation in the course itself.) This also widens the audience and I hpe some readers of this blog will join in now.

John Graves, a "student" in the class, had created a Google+ Community https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/112243817982502760507 during our mini-semester and that is place for conversation and also the possibility of some followup literal conversations using Hangouts.

I created an open Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/464360010307595/ where we can easily continue to share links and ideas. I have done this for other courses I teach and they have a pretty good life beyond the semester. There is one on designing social media, one that was started with a group I worked with in a Stanford creativity MOOC, and one on issues in general about educational technology.

Although I don't find the conversations as dynamic in LinkIn as in other social network,  I also created an open group there http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Academia-MOOC-4993629  because there are people active there. We have always hoped that more "professional" conversations would emerge in LinkedIn, but that hasn't happened for me yet. I'm actually more likely to connect professionally with people via this blog, Facebook or Twitter.

We had very lively activity in twitter using our hashtag of #acadmooc during the month that the class ran and I hope that tag continues to gather posts about MOOCs and their impact on academia.  

Thanks to another participant, Ann @annindk, our tweetchat with MOOC pioneer Bryan Alexander is archived on Storify for those who missed it. A second chat that we did within Canvas (closed) with another MOOC pioneer, Stephen Downes, is open to read in several place including here on Serendipity35.

If you are not a real Twitter user, you can also follow that conversation via Tagboard without a twitter account.

Finally, there will be people from the class posting to their own social sites (blogs etc.) about the course. Hopefully, I will get notifications about them or stumble upon them in some Google searching. We discussed in the course (it is hard to drop that familiar term) how little good formal feedback on MOOCs we could find by students. There are a good number of demographics studies on who takes MOOCs, but not much qualitative information on the experience. Most of that does seem to be informal or available on student sites.  Ann Priestley, who was in my MOOC, let me know that she had posted on her blog about the course and I very interested in the positives and negatives about the experience. (I already commented on her post, so that conversation continues). 

All these groups are open, so join in and invite colleagues who have an interest in exploring MOOCs. 


UnCollege

UnCollege challenges the the notion that going to college is the only path to success.

About 70% of high school graduates go on to college, even though studies seem to show that a college degree no longer guarantees success.

So, UnCollege www.uncollege.org states its mission as being "To change the notion that university is the only path to success and to help people to thrive in an ever changing world in which it is virtually impossible for educational institutions to adapt."

Some of their core belief are ones that intentionally disrupt how we have thought about post-secondary education and success.

  • Many people pay too much for university and learn too little.

  • You can get an amazing education anywhere—but you’ll have to stop writing papers and start doing things.

  • You need an excellent education to survive in a world where 50% of the population is under 30.

  • Subjects taught in traditional universities are often contrived,
    theoretical, and irrelevant, promoting conformity and regurgitation
    rather than innovation and learning.

  • You don’t have to decide what to do with your life at age 18.

  • You can contribute to society without necessarily having a university degree.

  • You cannot rely on university to give you a complete and relevant
    education when professors are often more interested in researching than
    teaching.

  • If you want to gain the skills requisite for success, you must hack your education.


Some of their efforts include a Gap Year Program and Hackademic Camps.

Coursera's Signature Track

Students taking MOOCs have always been interested in expanding the opportunities for getting some type of credit or recognition for completing courses. Coursera and others have been looking at working with ACE on credit equivalency because they recognize that there is a percentage of MOOC participants (certainly not all - and probably not a majority) who want to apply their learning to other institutions or employers.

This is also a path that providers (for-profits - and I include colleges in that group for MOOCs) want to go down as they create business plans to use MOOCs. 

And so, Coursera has announced Signature Track. This option will give students in some select classes the opportunity to earn a "Verified Certificate" for completing their Coursera course. It links your coursework to your identity and allows for identity verification (You can create a special profile to link your coursework to your photo ID and unique typing pattern.) It will also offer "Verified certificates" which are official recognition from universities and Coursera for your work done. You can also share your electronic course records with employers, educational institutions, or anyone else through a secure URL.

Some of the first courses to be selected for Signature Track (offered in January 2014) will be Introduction to Genetics and Evolution, Microeconomics Principles,Nutrition for Health Promotion and Disease Prevention, Computational Investing Part I, and Clinical Problem Solving.

On Coursera's blog, Peter Lange, Provost of Duke University says, “When we started offering our courses on Coursera, we aimed to extend the reach of our university’s intellectual strengths beyond our own halls, to a global classroom, now, we hope that these credentials, while they will not contribute directly toward a degree, will afford students around the world, of all ages, backgrounds and resources an opportunity to have a legitimate credential for their work in order to advance their career or fulfill themselves personally.”


Chatting About MOOCs With Stephen Downes

This is the log (slightly cleaned up) from a chat session held today with MOOC pioneer Stephen Downes and participants on the online class "Academia and the MOOC"

Kenneth Ronkowitz

Stephen co-taught that first MOOC, "Connectivism and Connective Knowledge," which had twenty-five tuition-paying students at the University of Manitoba in addition to 2300 other students from the public who took the online class free of charge for no credit. The course content was available through RSS feeds, and participants used threaded discussions in Moodle (LMS), blog posts, Second Life (a virtual world), and synchronous online meetings. 6:43 pm

Stephen Downes

T -5 minutes 6:55 pm

Mary Zedeck

Hi Stephen! 6:55 pm

Stephen Downes

OK, I`m set - it has been ages since I`ve done a text chat 7:00 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

I feel like some kind of Mac vs. Windows battle has been created with the cMOOC vs. the xMOOC. Is this useful or harmful? (or does it just confuse & frighten newbies?) 7:01 pm

Stephen Downes

Mostly it just confuses newbies. It's not really harmful, as the xMOOCs will gradually evolve to become more like cMOOCs - witness Coursera's new 'teacher support' announcement today. But it won't matter because the companies won't survive too long; they'll most likely be acquired by Pearson o Blackboard 7:02 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

I'm not sure if the average MOOC participant(if there is such a thing) is even aware of this distinction? 7:03 pm

Stephen Downes

Probably not 7:03 pm

Caryn N

is cMOOC or xMOOC still an acronym? 7:03 pm

Caryn N

kind of confuses things a little, imho 7:03 pm

Stephen Downes

The experience of course is different, tho - they certainly notice when they're in a cMOOC - but there isn't much crossover from xMOOC to cMOOC, I don't think 7:03 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

there are plenty more in the acronym soup now 7:03 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

Are you currently teaching a MOOC? 7:04 pm

Stephen Downes

MOOC = 'Massive Open Online Course', cMOOC = 'connectivist MOOC', xMOOC = 'eXtended MOOC'     7:04 pm

Denise Kreiger

Stephen, when you say the "companies won't survive too long" are you talking about Coursera and Udacity?   7:04 pm

Stephen Downes

Not teaching one right now, maybe this fall (buit with National Research Council's new mandate to serve business only, it gets harder) 7:05 pm

Stephen Downes

Coursera and Udacity, yes 7:05 pm

Denise Kreiger

won't survive? 7:05 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

because universities will take over? 7:05 pm

Stephen Downes

They're too small, they're too new and inexperienced, and the mainstream LMS companies have a huge advantage over them 7:06 pm

George Meghabghab

Are you saying edX will make it 7:06 pm

Denise Kreiger

But Ed-X is university -based, no? 7:06 pm

JH Shannon

the only universities with the resources bases to do that are those with great research bases, more likely the big higher Ed publishing houses will jump into the content development and perhaps delivery side 7:06 pm

Stephen Downes

EdX has a better chance if it attracts an open source community, but there is the danger of it becoming niche, like Sakai 7:07 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

Isn't the signature track that Coursera is offering a valid long term monetization strategy? 7:07 pm

Stephen Downes

MOOCs don't dfepend on content publishing - that's one of the myths that the new MOOC companies propagate, that MOOCs must be developed from the ground up at great cost - but in fact, MOOCs arfe the ideal vehicle for using existing open educational resources - just the way they linked to a bunch of my resources in this chat area before the chat started 7:08 pm

Mary Zedeck

From your experience teaching MOOCs, what do you think is the most difficult part for the instructor? And, what is the most difficult part for the students? 7:08 pm

Stephen Downes

The signature track is Coursera's best bety - but it's too easy to commoditize 7:08 pm

Stephen Downes

Thinking... 7:09 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

about signature track http://blog.coursera.org/post/?40080531667/signaturetrack 7:09 pm

Stephen Downes

For students, it is and always has been a combination of motivation and finding the time 7:09 pm

Stephen Downes

For instructors, it varies 7:10 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

Personally, I think many of the "issues" academics have with MOOCs are ones that have been discussed about online learning in generals for a few decades (such as academic integrity, encouraging engagement) What are issues that are unique to MOOCs? I'm thinking it's more about grades (peer grading etc.), credits... 7:10 pm

Stephen Downes

The xMOOCs demand a lot of instructor time as they make 80 or so 5 minute videos 7:10 pm

Stephen Downes

The cMOOCs can be crazy and chaotic and for instructors the realization that they don't control the course can be difficult to deal with 7:11 pm

Stephen Downes

For xMOOCs the issues are your straightforward issues - quality control, keeping students interested and active, assessment and credentials 7:12 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

cMOOCs demand a lot of effort from participants to engage within the community. Do you foresee this as a drawback from getting truly "massive" cMOOCs? Just not enough motivated learners? 7:12 pm

Stephen Downes

cMOOCs don't worry about any of that, because cMOOCs allow anyone to bring in resources, let participants choose & select quality resources for themselves, support various degrees of participation, and don't really worry about assessment    7:12 pm

Wendy Gilbert

This is my first MOOC -- and first "chat class." My question is, we have been hearing about MOOCs for a few years now -- why are they suddenly SO popular in the media? 7:13 pm

Stephen Downes

They are suddenly so popular in the media because people with the right media contacts and PR departments launched some 7:14 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

The NY Times needed an end of year article for the education section and decided 2012 was "the year of the MOOC" ;-)   7:14 pm

Wendy Gilbert

Aha... 7:14 pm

Stephen Downes

Anything that demands effort will have trouble attaining mass participation, but that's ok, the goasl isn't to be massive (anything over 150 will work fine) the goal is to be open, accessible and personal 7:14 pm

Wendy Gilbert

We are starting to use the phrase "I am 'MOOCed' out" because we are bombarded with articles about MOOCs. 7:14 pm

Denise Kreiger

When offering a MOOC 'for credit' (cMOOC or xMOOC),' how do you offer a comparable quality learning experience for students where their work will be evaluated to see if they've met the outcomes = course credit? With thousands of students, it's difficult to 'manage' that many students and evaluate their work (including discussion boards which are unwieldy) - and peer-evaluation does not seem a comparable evaluation for course credit. 7:14 pm

George Meghabghab

A project based MOOC is the answer ( I am thinking in the sciences) 7:15 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

Project based MOOCs.. interesting. 7:15 pm

George Meghabghab

I am developing one for my college as a pilot. I am doing a project based MOOC. 7:16 pm

Stephen Downes

@Denise - even if I were teaching an xMOOC, I wouldn't be trying to 'manage' students, or for that matter, much of the learning process at all - because management at scale becomes either inefficient (you tend to manage more poorly, because you don't know individual people) or impossible (because you can't get to know that many people) 7:16 pm

Caryn N

one of the MOOCs I took had a lab exercise, but it only used "household items" - it was very interesting! 7:16 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

I said up front that this "course" was not a course but a Conversation with most of the trad course stuff left out (assignments, grades...) Is that a use of MOOC platforms you see occurring more? 7:17 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

I was thinking about the sciences as well... most cMOOCs that I've looked at have been on education related topics, attracting people largely within academia.. how will the cMOOC framework translate to a science/math course that traditionally requires a lot of "instruction" and "testing"? Really curious about this one. 7:18 pm

Denise Kreiger

@Stephen - then how do you offer MOOCs for course credit and have it be transferable-worthy to other colleges and universities? 7:18 pm

Stephen Downes

My own take on course credit is that it's irrelevant. We have software now that can examine your work and determine whether you are qualified. People will do more and more of their work online. Over time, this will become mainstream. Course credits and academic credentials will become pointless, as work evaluation systems will examine your academic work directly, with each employer using a different set of criteria, and assigning 

you a different grade deopending on their needs and interests 7:18 pm

George Meghabghab

MOOCs are here to stay whether you play or not. The content is free on youtube, Khan's academy. You cannot just delete that. 7:18 pm

Stephen Downes

Lab exercises for MOOCs - there will be a long-term demand for physical learning facilities 7:19 pm

Caryn N

re: the sciences on MOOCs - one tool that is used is ALEKS (http://www.aleks.com/) 7:19 pm

Rob Straby

Stephen, your thoughts about credit are interesting, what do you think of the Mozilla Badge project? Is this a viable or desirable option? 7:20 pm

Caryn N

re: physical learning facilities - that also raises concerns about the "internationalization" of these MOOCs, yes? iow, we might have great facilities in areas of the US, but that's not necessarily true around the world  7:20 pm

Stephen Downes

Eg. I just learned yesterday how to make cheese sauce using sodium citrate - but who keeps Spdium Citrate around? Better to go to a fully stocked food preparation learning centre and try it out (http://www.chow.com/recipes/30?493-perfectly-melting-cheese)  7:20 pm

George Meghabghab

edX offered a "hardware" course without labs. It was only electronic simulation. And very successful.. 7:21 pm

Stephen Downes

@George - yes, the content is free. People don't realize this. This was the basic insight behind cMOOCs, in 2008 (well, one of them). We realized we didn't have to 'design' a course, we just needed to weave together a network of related resources. Which is, after all, connectivism. 7:22 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

Generally potential students are confused by all the MOOC providers - though they may only know the big 3. This also happens with OER. Would it be helpful to have one aggregation point for MOOC registration - or is that too "one world" monopolistic? 7:22 pm

Javier Benítez

Do you foresee learning analytics becoming more robust in assessing the learners in courses online? 7:22 pm

Stephen Downes

There's so much free content- there were millions of resources before Khan, millions since. It's like poeople have no idea. cMOOCs, once people realize how they're built, will become mainstream, because they make use of existing content. (= no cost) 7:22 pm

Stephen Downes

@Rob I haven't pursued badges with any sort of vigour 7:23 pm

Mohamed Khadim

What's the difference between MOOC and the flipped classroom.? Is it the sheer numbers? Or is it that there is still physical contact with instructors and students in an actual classroom ? 7:23 pm

Stephen Downes

@Caryn - I agree re:internationalization - but the content and instruction have always been the really expensive part, and MOOCs eliminate most of that cost 7:23 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

@Mohamed, I think flipped classrooms are a more blended learning approach, with actual physical classes to complement the online learning materials. 7:24 pm

Stephen Downes

@George - yeah, I've seen a lot of 'lab' courses using simulations. That's one area for significant future growth. Unfortunately, building sims is high overhead. It's a place publishers will focus on, and generate good return. 7:25 pm

Susan Dixon

I always thought with all the FREE content ...why do we spend so much time re-inventing the wheel. We need a revolution!  7:25 pm

George Meghabghab

That is why Pearson is working with EdX. 7:26 pm

Stephen Downes

@Javier - learning analytics will be useful, to a degree, but run squarely into privacy and security problems (eg., do you want people being trained for corporate or military learning submitting their analytiocs to Google (or their subsidiary overseas)? 7:26 pm

Stephen Downes

In a MOOC, instructional activities take place online (like today's event, for example). And they're open. In a flipped classroom, instructional activities take place offline, in a classroom, and they're closed. 7:27 pm

Susan Dixon

What is GraRSShopper? 7:28 pm

Stephen Downes

@Susan - exactly. The big lesson people should have learned from Khan is that the content can be pretty low quality and still be useful. I watched a video today to repair my web radio station - I had to set up a YP Hash - and it had no sound or anything, and minimal guidance - but it was the quiclkest & most effocient eway to address my problem 7:29 pm

Mary Zedeck

but you figured it out yourself - with no instruction from a teacher 7:30 pm

Stephen Downes

gRSShopper is software I authored in order to support cMOOCs - I think it's the only cMOOC sofwtare that exists (though people can use WordPress with some plugins to get some of the effect, that's what ds106 does)  

7:30 pm

JH Shannon

Then is not that the question vis-à-vis the relationship between books and higher Ed, the differentiation between higher level learning and simply figuring out how to do something? 7:30 pm

Stephen Downes

@Mary - I figured it out for myself, using the video, with no teacher, yes. Which tells me that having a teacher for this would have been inefficient. 7:31 pm

Javier Benítez

Besides having a set length of time, what are the advantages of having a "course"? Can't we just put all the content online and let people interact with it whenever they like? Thanks 7:31 pm

Mohamed Khadim

I think MOOCs can be quite useful from an accessibility perspective once the student is able to overcome some of the overwhelmingly technical barriers. For example not everyone may be comfortable with a chat session and this creates barrier. How does one approach differentiation from a technology perspective. 7:31 pm

Mary Zedeck

@Stephen, then why school? 7:31 pm

Rob Straby

Which plugins support a MOOC delivery in WordPress? 7:31 pm

Stephen Downes

@JH - a couple of things: first, formal learning tends to be knowledge-oriented (deep enquiry, and all that), while informal learning tends to be task-oriented (I need to know x to do y) 7:32 pm

Stephen Downes

One of the things offering a course did was to make the informal learning a bit less task-based, and to foster reflection over a series of activities and events, promoting the deeper form of learning 7:33 pm

Roz Hussin

@Stephen, have you seen any GOOD qualitative studies YET done on MOOC outcomes? 7:33 pm

Javier Benítez

is informal learning equivalent to tacit knowledge? 7:33 pm

Stephen Downes

@Mohamed - that was key for us - we set up our MOOCs to allow people to participate with any online technology they were comfortable with (in contrast to the platform-based xMOOCs, which demand you adapt to their approach) - because people have different issues with different tech 7:34pm

Stephen Downes

@Rob the major one is FeedPress 7:34 pm

JH Shannon connected 7:35 pm

Stephen Downes

@Javier No, informal learning is not tacit knowledge, though the two are often spoken of as the same thing - informal learning is learning that takes place onm an occasional basis, without a structure or plan, while tacit knowledge is knowledge that is ineffable, that is, knowledge that cannot be expressed in language or visual images 7:36 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

Mary posted a link to "I’m Still Confused as to Why Lecture Hall Classes Are Bad and xMOOCs Are Good? http://tinyurl.com/br83eu2   How would you answer that question? 7:36 pm

Javier Benítez

I think it's difficult to have people buy in to the connectivist learning theory because they've depended so much on textbooks for knowledge. what are the advantages you see in a connectivist learning theory that's not present in others?  7:37 pm

Stephen Downes

(Most of our knowledge is tacit knowledge, very little of what we know is explicit and expressible - which is why learning based on memory is insufficient, you miss most of what an expert knows - and why part of the MOOC model (well, the cMOOC model) is based on immersion into an authentic environment 7:37 pm

Stephen Downes

) 7:37 pm

Mohamed Khadim

Is there a worry that individuals with means in the developing and third world countries may exploit the free offering because they have access to computers and telecommunications while an entire village may not. How does a university avoid potential exploitation. 7:38 pm

Javier Benítez

I really like that about the cMOOC model 7:38 pm

Stephen Downes

@Kenneth Lecture Hall classes are bad because they do not have the support of a major public relations campaign and marketing; xMOOCs are 'good' because they do. (tongue-in-cheek) 7:38 pm

Roz Hussin

@Stephen - clarification on "qualitative studies" - has anyone looked at the impact of MOOCs on how people have changed their interaction style/efficiency after engaging in successful cMOOCs? 7:38 pm

Stephen Downes

@Mohamed - yes there is - I remember when OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) was first being launched, there was concern that the wealthy people in the communities would steal the laptops from the children and would use them for themselves 7:39 pm

Stephen Downes

@Mohamed - of course, this isn't just a problem in the developing world - in North America the wealthy people attend their own very expensive universities where they learn from high-priced professors and forge a business network that will serve them over a lifetime - giving them, for example, access to public relations and media campaigns should they launch a new product or service   7:40 pm

Stephen Downes

@Roz good question - Rita Kop may have mentioned it, but I can't say for sure 7:41 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

There was an interesting paper by Rita Kop on the challenges of connectivist learning in MOOCs, worth a read. http://www.irrodl.org/index.ph?p/irrodl/article/view/882 7:41 pm

Caryn N

The other concern with access is internet access, correct? It's one thing to have a laptop, it's another to be able to connect to a website with the bandwidth that's necessary to view the videos 7:41 pm

George Meghabghab

And now these same universities are offering courses free to the public while only the rich and famous could afford them. 7:42 pm

JH Shannon

@Stephen what do you think will be the longer-term impact of hoax 7:42 pm

JH Shannon

MOOCs on higher ed 7:42 pm

Stephen Downes

@George - yes, they give the courses away - but people go to Yale or Stanford (etc) not for the courses, but for the social, business and political connections - you pay a lot of money for that, and they're not giving *that* away 7:42 pm

Denise Kreiger

Having to do with the "Why Lecture Halls are Bad; xMOOCs are Good" article, I have a concern about the instructional design of MOOCs - if the lectures are chunked and moved online - the MOOC can still resemble the traditional lecture-based model that we're trying to move away from in universities - towards more engaging student-centered learning. Looking at resources in a cMOOC doesn't make a course 'engaging and collaborative 

with deep learning and critical thinking' necessarily, does it? 7:43 pm

Stephen Downes

@Caryn - internet access is a huge issue - I just talked with a group of administrators working at University College of the North, in Manitoba, where many communities don't have roads connecting them to the outside world, where services are minimal, and internet is onbly available by dial-up or satellite - it really changes the dynamics - my thinking here was, focus on what makes MOOCs (cMOOCs, at least) work - create mechanisms for creation and interaction, even if you have to fly DVDs full of content back and forth 7:44 pm

Caryn N

that's an interesting idea - media on the fly! 7:45 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

@Stephen, based on the Kop paper I just linked, she mentions the need for "critical literacies" to engage in cMOOCs. While we're on the topic of the developing world (I come from India), I can't imagine how learners from my country would actually engage with cMOOCs, as the "instructivist" approach is so deeply ingrained within the learning culture here. At the same time, if we look at some of the data on xMOOCs, Indians make up the largest contingent of learners (after the US/Britain).. any comment? 7:46 pm

Roz Hussin

@stephen - what is your opinion on the current LANGUAGE divide? that MOOCs only benefit the English speaking world right now? 7:46 pm

Stephen Downes

@Denise - you're exactly right - the resources are not what make the MOOC (either cMOOC or xMOOC) and it is a mistake to focus too much on them. I call them the McGuffin - the thing that catches people's interest, and makes them want to follow the story, but something inherently meaningless and interchangeable - what makes a MOOC work are the connections and interactions - a community of people working throught he ideas and conceptrs for themselves 7:46 pm

Javier Benítez

@Stephen is learning in a cMOOC just a display of understanding the content? 7:46 pm

George Meghabghab

You can use a translator and view the whole content in your language. 7:47 pm

Mohamed Khadim

@Stephen - perhaps a governance model may emerge that will Address issues of access, hoax, quality, deep instruction etc. or perhaps individual universities have already developed governance and qualitative evaluation models. 7:47 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

@George, yes you can view the content, but can you actually participate? Surely learning is more than just viewing content. 7:47 pm

Maribel Pepe

Of course you have a good connection speed help, but we have found that the most important is access to content, students often go to a cyber if they have problems at home with Connect 7:48 pm

Stephen Downes

@Janesh - I've seen some evidence of the deeply ingrained instructivist nature myself - I remember doing a tywo-day seminar in Malaysia - the first day they all sat and waited for me to teach them, the second day, my instruction to them was, basically, 'teach yourselves' - I have them an assignment, a project, and in groups they needed to work it out 7:48 pm

Susan Dixon

Stephen ... Are cMOOCs "Montessori Gone Wild" for big people? O_O 7:48 pm

Stephen Downes

MOOCs can have that effect - the 'critical literacies' Kop talks about related to a course we taughht, where participants are given the basic tools they need in order to learn for themselves 7:49 pm

Rob Straby

Stephen, your piece on Internet access is key, access is a real issue in northern and rural Canada. I worked on a hybrid project for northern communities, we used WordPress as it was functional on a dial-up connection. I think we need to be sensitive to the technology issues on the learner side. 7:50 pm

Roz Hussin

@Stephen and @Janesh - I am working on a qualitative research project (in hope of) mapping out Connectivist literacies needed for engaging in cMOOCs... Would you have any advice/input? and/or better yet, can I contact you to get advice/input? 7:50 pm

Stephen Downes

just a display of understanding the content? No - unless you thing of 'understanding' very broadly - to me, learning is literally the formation of a series of connections in the brain, learning X is literally forming a set of connections such that the cognitive capacities of a student of X are relevantly similar to those of an expert in X, where relevant similarity can be measured through a comparison of the totality of their interactions of 

practitioners of X, artifacts having to do with X, and performance of functoions related to X 7:51 pm

Denise Kreiger

How does a university offering MOOCs deal with all the digital-divide issues on a global scale so that students can communicate, access/view content, and 'create' content - not just 'consume'? 7:52 pm

Stephen Downes

students often go to a cyber if they have problems at home with Connect -- cybercafes are one of the world's great invention - they are essential in many areas of the world (coffee optional but nice) 7:52 pm

Maribel Pepe

@Stephen Thanks. As the number of participants in the MOOC, how many (number) of teachers or assistants must have? 7:52 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

@Roz, not sure if I can be of any help, but I'll do whatever I can janesh.sanzgiri@gmail.com 7:52 pm

George Meghabghab

Speaking of digital divide: Students own smartphones 2 to 1 compared to Faculty. 7:53 pm

Stephen Downes

@Rob, yes, I am sensitiv e - that's why for example in addition to having live video chats, I broadcast an audio feed on my radio station - because people using mobile phones can access shoutcast and listen to the class, even if they don't have good internet 7:53 pm

Stephen Downes

phew, was falling behind there 7:54 pm

Denise Kreiger

:-) 7:54 pm

Stephen Downes

@Marfibel, there's no number that I've observed, we've always taught MOOCs with three or four people, plus weekly guests, but I imagine it could be done with less (but there's never really a reason to, there always seems to be someone willing to step up and help out) 7:55 pm

Maribel Pepe

@Stephen thanks 7:56 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

To be honest, I am quite sceptical about cMOOCs being popular in India, it will require a major paradigm shift in order to do so. In fact, most of the participants in the "xMOOCs" from India can be attributed to the "big name universities" and the additional line it might add to their CV. 7:56 pm

Stephen Downes

@Geworge - absoluetly, and they don't use email or the web in anything like the numbers older people do - part of the core design fro cMOOCs (but not xMOOCs) was to be platform-agnostic, so we supported and encouraged people to use Twitter, Facebook, Posterous, Tumbly, whatever 7:56 pm

Rob Straby

ShoutCast, great idea, I like how you adapt material so that it can be accessed in multiple sources! 7:57 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

It's great to read about pedagogical innovations and experimentation such as connectivism, but this is quite a long way from reaching fruition in the developing world, where access to a basic education itself is always not granted. 7:57 pm

Stephen Downes

Hard to say Janesh - the people from India I've spoken to have been enthusiastic - I take your point about the line in the c.v. but at a certain point it becomes about what you know and can do, not just your c.v. 7:58 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

Yes, I am just generally very pessimistic :-) 7:59 pm

Maribel Pepe

@Stephen How do we encourage participants to create learning networks? 7:59 pm

Susan Dixon

I tried to register for your course...It says the site is not open to new registrations. ??? 7:59 pm

Stephen Downes

@Rob I use windows 'stereo mix' as my default audio source for everything, put up with a little microphone echo in my earphones, and stream out the same audio feed to Shoutcast, Hangout (or Skype, or Elluminate, depending on what I'm suing), and Audacity (for the recording) 8:00 pm

Stephen Downes

@Susan I'm not doing any courses right now, that's why 8:00 pm

Mohamed Khadim disconnected 8:00 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

We are coming up to the one hour point and I don't want Stephen to get trapped here - Last chance for questions? 8:00 pm

Caryn N

It also seems like many of the courses that have been developed are very university/intellectually minded (i.e. physics, algebra, etc) - any idea why there aren't more practical MOOCs (i.e. how to grow a really great crop, or organizing a grass-roots movement, etc) 8:00 pm

Stephen Downes

But you don't need to register, all the materials (including videos and recordings) are available on the website 8:00 pm

Caryn N

I should have put "practical" in quotes... 8:01 pm

Rob Straby

@Janesh, I have Canadian students with similar issues. I deliver a constructivist approach that I feel is in between connectivist and instructivist models. The reflective projects help to lead students in a more self directed way.  8:01 pm

Denise Kreiger

Roz Hussin

@Maribel, in my humble opinion, based on first hand experience watching learning networks start out strong, then sizzle out, it isn;t about engaging or starting... the key is to SUSTAIN the learning network... 8:01 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

Thankyou Stephen for taking time out to do this. And Kenneth for organizing :-) 8:01 pm

Stephen Downes

@Caryn - because they're not needed - people just Google what they need to know - if they want lessons, they just search specifically for videos 8:01 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

It has been very active here - imagine if a few hundred people DID show up! 8:02 pm

Stephen Downes

@Rob interestingly I have the most problems with teachers who are constructivists - they want my course to be completely conmstructivist, but of course when people define their own learning path, it isn';t 8:02 pm

Stephen Downes

@Kenneth if a few hundred people showed up I would have tyuped as many answers as I did today, but more people would have read them :) 8:03 pm

Roz Hussin

@Kenneth, I think some people got lost in the time zone difference... 8:03 pm

Janesh Sanzgiri

Glad I stayed up for this :-) 8:03 pm

Stephen Downes

Thanks everyone, this has been a lot of fun - can I ask the organizers whether there will be an archive of this chat available in open access somewher? 8:03 pm

Roz Hussin

yes, archive would be GREAT! 8:04 pm

Mary Zedeck

I will create a chat archive and send it to you Stephen 8:04 pm

Stephen Downes

@Kenneth - the trick is to not feel oblicated to answer 400 questions, or even to read them all 8:04 pm

Stephen Downes

The expert is just one person in the conversation 8:04 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

we could post it - what do you think would be a good place for it? 8:04 pm

Roz Hussin

"the trick is to not feel obligated to answer 400 questions, or even to read them all" .... this sounds like a MOOC literacy too! 8:04 pm

Stephen Downes

I can post it on my blog 8:05 pm

Mary Zedeck

And, post the chat archive in the course as well. Feel free to post it to you blog as well, Stephen. 8:05 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

@Roz put it in our MOOC aphorisms!  8:05 pm

Kenneth Ronkowitz

I will also blog it on mine at http://serendipity35.net 8:06 pm

Stephen Downes

OK, archive is openly posted here: http://halfanhour.blogspot.ca/?2013/05/cn1376-acadmooc.html 8:07 pm